Thats all the ambien defense is too. He just got knocked off his pedestal and some of his supporters are throwing up their hands in despair. Both comments were polite, serious, and thoughtful, and neither saw the light of day on the other blogs. 4 unwanted extended hugs (thats including Nancy Ortbergs latest revelation). I dont hug random people, but it doesnt bother me, unless it twitches over to creep territory. Do not be the disciple with the sword. Less excusable is the behavior of the elders after it started coming out. With the way some are acting, they mimic Hybels anger and vindictiveness rather than Christ. And worse, to make rock stars of them? Is it that tough for you to give Bill Hybels any redeeming value? So, what led to the divorce? And those who go on to attack the victims are generally clueless as to what the bible actually teaches. I go even further with it, Jack. They were powerful, influentual, respected leaders. As a consequence, I would urge caution in using thw word heresy with respect to this particular topic. April 13, 2018. Is that one of the reasons Student Centers/University Unions include Mall Food Courts and all the amenities of a high-end cruise ship? The principles are sound, thoughwell enough to be applied to anyone's marriage, especially those looking to place God in the middle. Dee, I was wondering how you got him to do that gig. As for BIll HybelsI have not judged his salvation. I looked down at the author. @ Bridget: And I want to express my gratitude to Nancy for coming forward. @ Davis and Natasha: Dont get me started on how mega churches operate. Bill has been married to Lynn Hybels since 1974. 30 seconds, if it was really that long, is a very long time for a hug. Bingo. Some years ago on a dictionary of internet slang, Christian Side Hug was a term for non-genital sex intended to preserve technical virginity. Open Discussion Page. PS No one wants to think their pastor is being inappropriate, so your brain just dismisses it. But is that truthful? I would love TWW to enable me to get email notification of new posts and new comments on a thread I have commented on. The issue with that is that its not like the secular world, in which after perps have done their time, they can make a living in their field of avocation (though in the case of fraud perpetrators and/or crimes with victims, future funds may be diverted to said victims). In Megas there are layers upon layers of protective bubble wrap for guys like Hybels. Willow Creek does not need Bill Hybels. Learn to value yourself. The student is not above the teacher, but everyone who is fully trained will be like their teacher. @ Barbara Roberts: This is exactly what you would expect from some Neo-pharisee trying to hide his sin from the world. The women will be able to see the other side of things. Given the complexity and amount of ongoing business involved in a multi-million-dollar, multi-campus enterprise, I would thank that their legal counsel would have ensured that documents (including emails) from all board members, staff, and other employees would need to be preserved, in case of legal/criminal issues arising. @ Lydia. It is hard enough fighting rampant sex abuse in churches. Once again, that is left in the capable Hands of our Father. If he was having problems with women when taking Ambien, why didnt he stop taking it and get help? (Dee), TELL YOUR DOCTOR if you have unlikely but serious side effects of Ambien including: The pair is living in Chicago and is blessed with two children; both boys. From all angles. I find it a it off putting that anyone would keep a list of *how many have you led to Christ. Why not go public 4 years ago?? If you think about it, that was a planned get out of jail card planted around a few places quite expertly. (A bit dogmatic, huh? I read it that Jesus was doing the moderating. Every believer has a unique calling. The church is now thriving with new leadership, honoring Jesus instead of greedy indiscrete nepotism. Judging Others They said they could look him in the eye and discern if he was telling the truth.. The Body of Christ will be fine. I cant help but see your point here. I bet she had help. You will eventually find like minded people. People handle things. Jesus is our model of leadership. Jesus wins. Did her husband ask her not to say anything for FEAR of losing his job? These people have patience for the long con. Missionary Man Ok whats wrong with this picture?? John Ortberg served (1994-2003) as teaching pastor at Chicagos Willow Creek Community Church. over my many years associated with fundamenatlist through to mainline protestant groups I have experienced things situations, or told things that seemed just downright wrong. Maybe hes just old. It took her 40 years(!) If you arent a hugger, you arent a hugger. One thing Im certain of, Bill Hybels would NEVER have hired men like Paul or Peter to be teaching pastors at Willow. Russ Moore agrees with you. I think the safest place for interaction is in public. Thanks Clockwork Angel! Maybe Creekers should rethink that. I was speaking more generally, I dont hug men at work! I hope its okay to post. This one is so true. And with Invocation of GAWD subbing for the Ludes and Roofies. Are you aware, Mr. Brucker, that you are essentially playing with a full house or a straight flush in the rationalization department? I highly recommend it, as well as his book, I dont understand the focus by this and other commenters on when did she tell her husband, When I got to his room, Bill had wine opened and waiting. there will be a pendulum swing away from megachurches. Of course, you have move people beyond that into a mature relationship with the Lord and some megas neglect this. They also have two children together, whose name we don't know. 1 Peter 4:8 Four-One-Nine just a Game We would use the suite for meetings, as well as gatherings for medical professionals. January 28, 2020 8:39 pm. To all those women that have been psychologically damaged, what a needless tradegy. Where is the scribe? Its harder to sweep things under the rug when internet on-lookers are looking under rugs 24-7. kwim, dees? Whether or not one can repent after death seems to be the question when it comes to Christian universalism. I wonder if churches have convinced themselves of the same. There is nothing wrong with this picture, this is the way it happens. Remember Bill hybels stepped down. In this day and age, no one wants to get their name caught in the tangled web. You want to know the lack of leadership moment that really stood out to me in Hybels own words? Does it lend itself to the overall problem? My mom would come up to my room and cuddle while we talked when I was little and not so little. ), hum, hum, hum but tomorrow be 501(c)3 rain, still Ill follow the Son, Spy It was not the stature of the parities involved that was relevant, but the truth of the matter at hand. http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/breaking/ct-met-willow-creek-pastor-20171220-story.html, Perhaps someone with computer/tech background can explain how these emails can exist, but not be read, as the news report says . Lets pretend we know what we are doing., When someone shows you who they are believe them; the first time. Maya Angelou. Its not about perfection but it is about striving to be. They think theyve stopped it. Church Discipline Please take a look at the situation in 1 Coninthians 5. If you continue to use this site we will assume that you are happy with it. is lynne hybels still married to bill. Who would believe any of it if it were not for the Ortbergs? Wow!!! Or, they quickly retract. Its their normal. I would thank that their legal counsel would have ensured that documents (including emails) from all board members, staff, and other employees would need to be preserved, in case of legal/criminal issues arising. Nancy, like Vonda, believed her experience with Bill was an isolated incident. Ultimately only Willow Creek congregants can decide the fate of their church sad state of affairs with millions of dollars at stake. Why it was Bill Hybels! (Hoping they picked the right winning faction). Emails can be kept confidential with appropriate IT input. No wonder they get a God complex. I hope they will be held accountable and step down. The next time you make a blanket statement about what the Bible says, pause, think about it, Google and find some help for these difficult concepts. She felt even more blessed when in 1985 Mr. Hybels and his wife invited her to move into their home, where she shared family dinners and vacations. How many women would even dare come forward after being called liars, drunks and suicidal? Whats being destroyed is the idol worship of Bill Hybels. I am thankful for the hard work Bill Hybels and his family have done. I remember a similar excuse well stated by Flip Wilson The devil made me do it., No wonder you have no qualms about slamming the Church, the bride of Christ, I find it a it off putting that anyone would keep a list of *how many have you led to Christ.*. People not in the mega inner circle world dont understand it. Some will sadly never make the decision to follow Christ. 20 years later Ive served in ministry as well as a school administrator for small and very large public high schools. Is Bill Hybels still married? Cant people be sincere and caring without all that? There are no winners here. @ Law Prof: I did. He was talking about how successful Sociopaths and Swindlers and Abusers are masters of Camouflage (and Misdirection)! Cant people be sincere and caring without all that? The inner motivations and thoughts of an individual. But David and all Israel beginning at Davids own house bore the consequences of the sin. Oh well. We were in both places for years and said little or nothing. And Jesus does not need Willow Creek. Her pastor said that her body belonged to her husband and he could do whatever he wanted to do. I mean, it makes for good gossip too. I developed this over the last 10 years in writing curriculum on addressing systemic abuse. Thank goodness at least that at church when we pass the peace we literally clasp a hand briefly and say peace (literally that) and this is the entire procedure. @ dee: Brad, not all of us read or study the scriptures with the same filter. Global Leadership huh Bill ? havent forgotten. He spent a week capturing one of the biggest aurora borealis shows in recent years. Is it even possible that one leads to the other, as the power dynamic created by abuse is addictive? In the seeker world, it tends to mean numbers, programs, etc. Unfortunately, this particular scandal not only impacts specific Willow Creek pastors or employees it impacts the body of Christ and the thousands of people seeking to know Jesus. Ive no doubt that there was irregularities going on at WCC. No one. Moths making holes in a cloak, Nothing really bad happened. Ortberg gives us some eyebrow raising information. Perhaps God is looking for a different type of leadership in His Church. @ Davis and Natasha: Even worse, you can be shamed/shuned, and called lukewarm for your honest questioning of what you experienced/think. Do you believe it is someone posing as her, or do you think she is in on it? They dont feel like telling anyone, just swallow it and hold it in. My husband was so proud that he got to met the Bill Hybels and was so happy that he got to talk to him and have his picture taken with Bill Hybels. ? Why not go public 4 years ago?? (1 Cor. No!! Assuming TWW readers have spent some time absorbing background and details about Bill Hybels and the evidence from the women who came forward with accusations, what do you see as possible points and patterns with that case study, compared with those of Joss Whedon and Lawrence Krauss? My professional organization will not do that In fact, we are specifically instructed how to do email when legally sensitive information is invloved. This easy-to-follow guide for enjoying a happy, healthy, and lifelong relationship includes . I do wonder what the men exchanging holy kisses in bible times did for their brains. Her courage will be an inspiration many others. By . It was recently revealed that Bill Hybels' wife, Lynne, filed for divorce after 37 years of marriage. Im probably talking to the air, though, because hit-and-run scolds like you seldom have the courage to come back. She claims Bill Hybels brought up the incident in Hawaii about the ambien. Two publishers suspend publication of books by megachurch pastor Hybels in wake of misconduct allegations Tyndale House Publishers InterVarsity Press (Chicago Tribune). A dishonest person disposes everything in the hope that nothing will ever be retrieved that reveals his guilt. How many church leaders are not of His sheep ? B wrote: Lets show the world that there is a place to growth our sin. Put it in context and think about such a convo. not even then 4 years.?? (The servants name was Malchus. Kind of surprised it was allowed to stand without edit or response. This is not Christianity. People were being killed, thrown to lions and tarred and set on fire to be torches for for Neros garden parties. If it is seeing a good friend after a long time, a family member, etc, understandable. It would seem the as yet unnamed individual, reported to have had an affair, has legal claim against multiple parties. The CIA is able to protect their emails as well. If youre interested in seeing whether I qualify, you can check out my main blog to see what I write about. (I do think that helped me collect the red flags sooner, though). Since you are well versed, go back to Jesus in the Garden the night he was betrayed. . Cherry picking scripture out of context wont convince many here, scare or shame them. Only those who walk in darkness need to hide what they are doing. In your view, discussing Hybels behavior is worse than his behavior. Nothing to see here folksmove along! This is MBA stuff. (3) A fifteen-minute phone conversation, also on April 6th, with the woman who made the confession, who had previously emailed Leanne three times that if her story went public she would deny it. Redemption. After all that Nancy Ortberg said, I would hate for her husband to have behaved like that, even if it isnt as bad as what Bill Hybels has done. A lot of people find security and safety in that. Our job is to call. Yes, we left HBC ourselves. Shameful! https://jodiwalle.com/openlettertojohnortberg. Is this a ruse to further that idea? Surrounded by sycophants, who knew better. These things seem like nitpicking until you have more information. Dee and Jack know so little. I would not attend a church where I knew the pastor behaved like that. 19 For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and the discernment of the discerning I will thwart. 20 Where is the one who is wise? Sometimes theyre letting you know who theyve really been followingand who they havent been. I treated my childhood dog like a doll. Why? Sexual predation is not based on *wanting to have sex. The elders at Willow Creek Community Church tonight sent an email to congregants, stating that the church is "heartbroken" over the "abuse" of a congregant. Someday you may well find out what a fool you have been. Walking away from an institution is not the same as walking away from faith in Christ. So grateful for this much-needed emphasis this weekend. Thats only whats been reported. and this they do with great skill. @ dee: If they were sent and stored in a encrypted format, then you would need the key to open them and read them. For the whole world-system, based as it is on mens primitive desires, their greedy ambitions and the glamour of all that they think splendid, is not derived from the Father at all, but from the world itself. (1 John 2:16 Phillips), And then theres this: I could go on and one, but my point is that serial abusers are very, very clever. Jesus Christ is the assessory. This was a joke which proved how few people at WCC understand sexual harassment. There was also some sort of one world conspiracy deal. The issue with that is that its not like the secular world, in which after perps have done their time, they can make a living in their field of avocation (though in the case of fraud perpetrators and/or crimes with victims, future funds may be diverted to said victims). The Bible makes specific reference to this in I Cor. Unfortunately, this particular scandal not only impacts specific Willow Creek pastors or employees it impacts the body of Christ and the thousands of people seeking to know Jesus. if this was mishandled, was else has been mishandled? It is clear to me that God did not want this hidden any longer. Timing is interesting. Two general statements: People of Willow Creek, save your church by demanding resignations from he full Elder Board and lead pastors. Betrayal, trust, etc. It legitimately creates automatic suspicion, and potential legal woes. (That last one is pure fun in a mega church because you have to trust the elders/boards. Some sources say that they dated for five years, broke up, got engaged then broke their engagement and later got back together and finally got married. Terrible, terrible thing. Remember all those times we hung out together and nothing happened? Please join me in praying for WCC, the victims, and the leaders. He sees things.. Shameful! And then maybe they see it happening, confront the guy, he says understood and suddenly you and your husband are out of a job. He is the founding and former senior pastor of Willow Creek Community Church in South Barrington, Illinois, one of the most attended churches in North America, with an average attendance of nearly 24,000 as of late 2018. Christianity Lite, theyve taken the salt out of salt. Or even an outlier, if need be. i can not think of any good reason the pastor would want that! . So much emphasis on good works at home & abroad, what about treating your brothers & sisters in leadership with respect that comes from a relationship w/ Christ. Thank you for sharing your analysis of this! I find it a it off putting that anyone would keep a list of *how many have you led to Christ. I do believe that he may have gone through a time of repentance and contrition, as much as he may understand that he needs to, and has come to the other side of it and that is the reason that he may not seem as repentant as they expect. Its safer. Thanks, Futurist Guy. in one of those situations. The term for this is Simul Justus et Peccator. That is me, that is you and that is everyone else. Including the Ortbergs. I hope that you are correct that what was stated by Jodi Walle is not true. Christianity is so intertwined with our society as the religion that the majority, if they dont believe, at least pay lip service to. Ive been silently wondering the same. And it is *by design*! But thats over the course of 42 years of ministry! Is that structure really the best way to know Christ? The kids tried to sue the board to no avail. I hope you are right about this. . This stemmed from a Gospel of Personal Salvation and ONLY Personal Salvation (everything else was All Gonna Burn) where the only thing God would ask on J-Day was How Many Souls Did YOU Save? and the numbers in your sales record would be all that determined your position and rank in Heaven. I believed, everyone believed, that he was one of the good guys, committed to fighting for womens rights, committed to our marriage, and to the women he worked with. @ truthseeker00: I hope your eyes are one day opened. Woe to the one who quarrels with his Maker An earthenware vessel among the vessels of earth! You are right, the whole situation smells of cover-up. I believe the world is far more interested in Christians who know they are sinners and deal with it as opposed to Christians who are actively trying to keep the sin thing on the down low. Read Acts 4 and 5. normal life stuff. Bill Hybels, (formerly, William Hybels) was born on 12 December 1951 in Kalamazoo, Michigan, U.S. Learn to be alone with yourself. Most common reaction in the world. Later I did not know how or who to talk to and began to second-guess and doubt myself as to its significance; that is, until years later when I began to hear stories of other similar encounters. Well, yes, absolutely. Nothing more. Its like a funhouse mirror of the Christianity I used to follow. So your mind overrides your gut. Me too. That doesnt mean people should be randomly hugging you for no reason, though. The lead elder talks about a duty to protect the church and cites Acts 20:28 which allows her to indirectly call the betrayed wolves and enemies of the church. Whew, those poor WC members have been exposed to some characters! Email a description of the experience to yourself right away while details are fresh. We sat under their leadership at Willow Creek for several years and were sad when the Ortbergs left to California. After all, women are not little children who have to run to daddy for every little bump up. I, like so many others a tragic victim of corrupted Christianity. Davids repentance was a magnificent example of repentance. . I underestimated their ability to constantly reinvent themselves to keep the money flowing. Seems like a lot of marriages in and around WCC have some awful secrets. Read the Bible Dee. Some of these little churches were literally destroyed. Know who you are. One does not mess with God and get away with it. Take look at what Paul says about this immoral situation. If I felt uncomfortable I removed myself from the situation and spoke up. Posting from East China where these kind of things often, ahem, usually get brushed under the carpet. Who are we to say which it is when somebody lances a boil and the pus drains out; but to continue the analogy the boil existed before the surgeons knife got anywhere near it. Yet, recent expanded personal testimony and wider media discovery has presented material that strongly suggests an Willow Creek senior pastoral history of improper judgement in relation to proper scriptural leading or proper inner-workings of a church representing the teachings of Jesus Christ. Im not saying any of that is right. of Poor Poor Innocent Victim of Wicked Stepmother, then hit the detonator (after those several years of setting the charges) at his own wedding, when he invited her (and the rest of the family). @ Lydia: Look up who are semitic people. And jet setting. Nothing brings the True Believer attack dogs out of the woodwork like even the hint of Blasphemy against their REAL god. (Likewise, it seems that women did not have clarity about reportable behaviors and were expected to handle it on their own.). When was the last time you led someone to Jesus? And influence a few. All the retreats, big brother making sure you attend mid week activities (I know of some megas that were playing around with a card swipe for staff to make sure they were attending services and staying), the need to be cool, your personal assistants doing your clothes shopping, etc, etc. I want to make sure I understand you. Its ridiculous. So, yes, Id vouch for his legitimacy. Gossip! But long ago, I realized that these situations are not made up of clear white/black hats. I hug relatives and near relatives depending on the situation-like somebody is dead. Because you put so much trust and admire a leader like Hybels, your first instinct is to dismiss anything off about them. And why on earth is this even a discussion? No one, from the janitor to the CEO, can be deemed off limits to the moral and ethical demands of respect, decency and appropriate behavior. Look for similarities with the other victims testimonies. But, I seriously doubt your using scripture as a club will shame, convince or condemn many here. I think thats true for some and not others. No quid pro quo to substantiate. Honestly, there is a lot of gossip here and on other social media about all this. Wow!!! To fellowship with other believers? Bill Hybels confessed a few years ago that WC had made a mistake by not encouraging church members to read their Bibles and mature spiritually. I dont understand the purpose!!!!! Medical records are handled in this fashion. That is a huge red flag. If someone thinks so, tell me how. In 2019, a six-month-long independent review found all allegations against Bill credible. We have preached a get of jail free gospel of buy the ticket and everything is as if it never happened. Lydia, not sure if that is sarcasm or? Mary, you judge day in and day out. Okay, now is my choice to reference David. I was in the bath and my roommate answered the phone. Ive been wondering if church leaders with abusive pastors have become convinced (or have convinced themselves) that, 1) Sexual misconduct is somehow rampant among charismatic pastors If people doubted my testimony about being assaulted by a guy who publicly harassed women that nobody could stand, then certainly they wont believe their favored celebrity can do things like that. Members have been psychologically damaged, what a needless tradegy but long ago, seriously. Will be held accountable and step down are semitic people about the.... Its not about perfection but it doesnt bother me, that you are happy it. Is as if it never happened, dees what the bible makes specific reference to this particular.... To stand without edit or response Lynn Hybels since 1974 is pure in! 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