Improvements to chimney flues occupied many scientific minds. Forced air heating and cooling is integrated and common in homes with existing ductwork. Air quality benefits too, since there are no dust-spreading, allergy-exacerbating ducts at play here. That's 100,000 Btu, or 29 kWh. So whereas a forced-air furnace has to work overtime, consuming extra energy to make up for its losses, radiant panels waste virtually no energy when running. The previous owner also added gas forced air heat. Please help.. thank you in advance.. Do I need to do anything special to paint my ceiling that has radiant heat? My insurance company wants to know who the manufacturer was, how can I find out, and who can I get to inspect it for safety???? Are you a distributor? ASHRAE comfort standards have also noted that thermal comfort is related to both radiant and convection heat sources. Products. This feature has been temporarily disabled during the beta site preview. Seen it in a estate of bungalows in a village near us. Radiant ceiling panels provide a type of heat that feels natural like sunlight. You still don't understand the concept and technology of radiant heat, and it would benefit you to read up on it. The name is Calorique. Our home was built in 1957 and has radiant heat in the ceiling. Sorry, Martin, but there are plenty of studies out there. Install them in your bathroom, office or studio anywhere you need to keep warm and conserve floor space for . 1970's retro fit rear car window heater built in, thick visible tracks) are fragile and easily damaged. The oil energy crisis of the 1970s and the privatisation of electric companies in the 1990s saw storage heating take a back-seat to more modern heating systems. There's never a charge for a phone consultation and we're happy to share our expertise. Please cite a paper or study supporting your theory; I've never read one. It is not that simple minded. A/C 15 SEER Heil heatpump system installed in attic with 95% efficient LP furnace with variable speed and 2 stage blower and 16 SEER A/C only condensor. The complete source for building, designing, and remodeling green homes. i was putting insulation in outside walls while they were putting wiring in ceiling. Project Objective. Not only would the concrete take too long to heat up, but it would also continue to radiate for several hours after the thermostat had been turned down or off. When the heat kicks on, blasts of hot air rush into the space until the target temperature has been reached. I have the same issue and I dont know what it is but my electric bills are through the roof. Whats more: In a family with members who prefer different temperatures, zoning makes it so that everyone can get through the winter comfortably. Last year (2022) we filled Jan, Mar, May & Sept and we live on the Massachusetts coast. Your comments regularly confuse the concept of energy savings with the concept of dollar savings. Any help with this question would be much appreciated. Almost Maintenance Free The cable part of this heating system has no moving parts to wear out. I found the source feeding the room in the wall up near the ceiling and disconnected the power. But dont let the arrival of spring distract you from the reality that, if you were uncomfortable at home during the cold months, you are likely to be uncomfortable again. So it almost never comes on except when we go away for a few days in the winter. Was this under ceiling heating an infra red radiant panel? The living room and hall are tied together onone thermostat and has stop working. Where can I find a wiring diagram for 3 way switches to control multiple outlets between them. We pay 0.075$ kw/h. changes (Berglund et a., 1982) and a rise in air temperature by 1C could mean a 6% increase in energy consumption (Roth et al., 2007). Has a 10mm copper strip down each side of mat, a type of fabric in between and is covered in a film. The fact that you equate electric radiant heat with electric resistance strip heating demonstrates an ignorance of the basic concept of *RADIANT* heat. Our friends' home just had a pretty bad fire and it was almost certainly this ceiling heat where it started. The home isn't "super insulated" - R50 ceiling, R21 walls and no insulation under the slab (except for one room, the entire house is on the one level. Many people like using them because they don't take up any valuable space but look sleek and modern. However, there was no voltage on the other grid lead. Finding a few cracked ceilings and staining near the walls as expected. (But ductless heat pumps sure could change it up!). This is his classic book on Amazon http://www.amazon.com/Modern-Hydronic-Heating-Residential-Commercial/dp/1428335153/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1328759341&sr=8-1 Use the "Look Inside" feature on Amazon and read the First Pages. In order to specify the right type of fire rated glass, it is important to look beyond the fire endurance rating (20 . I am currently having my kitchen renovated in my 1965 home. Worst invention ever. . Ingeniously, hydronic tubes were set into the concrete flooring. The house builders, before installing the plaster or drywall to form the ceilings, would install electric resistance heating Continue reading Electric Cable Ceiling Heat Pros and Cons, Electric Cable Ceiling Heat Pros and Cons. Mein Benutzererlebnis mit Cookies anpassen, Landscape Architects & Landscape Designers, Outdoor Lighting & Audio/Visual Specialists, Recessed lights in a ceiling with radiant electric heat. There are many reasons for this. I have had people swear by this system, winter will tell. With wood, coal, propane, solar thermal, oil, ground source. I beg to differ, Robert. The very first radiant heating systems emerged in the Roman Empire. While the origins of radiant floor heating stretch way back into the mists of history, the technology has come of age only in recent years. the ceiling was torn down with new insulation and pour barrier installed. So, it will cost you a lot of money to get it installed by a professional. One crack at the end of the hallway is quite large. Combining a heat pump with a gas furnace (natural preferred but propane is necessary) is likely to be your most economical long term investment. Here are two super-useful articles (10 to 20 minute read each): It consists of a metal grid that hangs from the rafters and heats up when electricity flows through it (similar to how you might use radiant floor heat). Do I need to do anything with the wire if I do clip it, beside insulating the end? There is a 3-wire cable for each room that runs 2 hot wires and an unshielded ground from the breaker box to each room for 220v. A typical setup would put a concrete floor, painted a dark color, beneath a sunny south-facing window. Since we have already exceeded building code and comfort expectations with a well insulated house and argon filled thermal pane windows, everything added subtracts from ROI and diminishing returns are the only guarantee. We bought our house in 2015 and the prior owner was an electrician. My painter suggested Lowes. Ceiling heat from 1964 in Maryland. would scraping the popcorn off to make a smooth ceiling finish affect the radiant heat?. But even a gas-burning 50%-er would not make electric radiant mats a more cost-effective solution in most markets. Channel manager at Calorique. Below is the link to the guidelines. Michael -- thanks for citing the research from Canada. They are comfortable but I think floor heat works better. I would like to see a comparison with the same setback temperatures, but there are many other factors that affect the efficiency of this SYSTEM. Have this is my 1969 home and would like to replace the textured ceilings. you seem like an experienced person judging from internet info : . Mine is wire embedded in the drywall, NOT between two layers. I also love the individual thermostats in each room. Thanks to haulbrookdf for your comment as well. Be open to learning. House was built in early 1970s. Though its not always impossible to achieve zoned heating with traditional systems, newer technologies accommodate zoning from the get-go. Use HAV system now. of well insulated living space last month (December) for less than $100.00, including the cost of electric boiler and domestic hot water heater, radiant floors though-out. Because of the radiant ceiling in the basement, your floors in the rooms above also benefit from the heat. This website was designed, optimised and is hosted by Untold Media. 2. One wire is connected to the thermostat. The main problem with your proposal -- to lower the air temperature setting of the thermostat and depend on electric ceiling panels to warm people -- is that people don't stay put, unless they are working on an assembly line in a cold factory (where radiant panels probably make sense). Last season we set it to 68 and left it all season Nov-March. Steve, Interesting info. They had full heat sheets, half heat sheets, and 1/3 heat sheets. I read about it, and anticipated that we d be comfortable with lower temp, air to air heat pumps and waste oil systems in all of N.America there is little I can learn from the narrow of mind and obviously little I can impart. Idiots like this harm people all the time!! while looking trough the attic the other day I discovered two other rooms with radiant wires with power running through them but no controls anywhere in the house. we have no heat bill other than gas for the 4 chainsaw. So I depart and leave you to your bliss. A collection of one thousand construction details organized by climate and house part. We realize this will make it tough to install ductwork for central AC, but it has a decent wall unit. According to the Department of Energy, "Radiant heating has a number of advantages. Residential in-space heaters were then introduced in the 1970s to solve the problem of energy shortage. In the next phase of development, radiant heating took a big step toward becoming its own entity, an active system capable of providing heat with or without help from the sun. The heat is in the ceiling and is presently working great. The responsiveness of radiant ceilings makes them excellent for modern. In one, we used sheetrock that had heating coils embedded about 6 inches apart lengthwise. Broadly similar products exist on the market, but Warmboard stands alone in terms of efficiency and conductivity. Never did much to try and repair the cuts knowing how difficult it would be to find them. They do do work in Ohio. This efficiency means that your furnace doesnt need to work as hard, and you save an additional 10 to 20 percent on energy costsabove and beyond what youre already saving by choosing radiant heat over a traditional system. If the savings came (at least in part) from temperature setback and lower air temperatures, I'm unconvinced. one room is no longer working however. Since ceilings are typically constructed of gypsum based sheet rock, they offer very little resistance to thermal transfer. We ended up placing simple electric floor heaters in those rooms. I find it is more efficient than baseboard, less efficient than a mini split or forced air. Has it been a while since you last looked into your options? Not every radiant heating system maximizes homeowner savings. Periodic Inspection Reporting & Certification. Radiant ceiling heat in my 1964 build. At the same time I'll speak up if I think someone is missing something in their analysis. Enter your email address to subscribe to this blog and receive notifications of new posts by email. My bad room had only 100v so I pulled the thermostat out, removed the leads and tested for voltage and continuity. You are using an out of date browser. Hopefully someone on here can explain why the loud cracking popping sounds from the ceiling and walls from this heating! If we make no adjustments I think we will make it to end of February. In a wall with no insulation, the external wall will absorb the radiant heat of the sun and radiate this heat through the plasterboard to the internal living areas of the home. Radiant ceilings circulate hot or cold water through concealed copper tubing on the back of the panels providing sustainable heating and cooling with minimal air ventilation requirements. I have been installing radiant floors for 25 years, the vast majority of which are being driven by gas-fired condensing boilers. Another thing that I like are heat mats behind bathroom mirrors, in a room that is drafty or cold. This Hi, my home was built in 1966, and I have ceiling radiant heat. I agree with you David - sort of. I need some help with an electrical issue I'm experiencing. Most people don't want to live in a house with cold rooms that require occupants to turn on electric heating panels to get warm whenever they move to a different room. With radiant ceilings and floors comfort is achieved at a lower room temp, which can reduce the amount of fuel used by a few percent. I told her I turned on my ceiling heat in the morning. The main bath has no vent fan & I'm going to remodel so thought about transferring the service from the attic, down through a wall and add radiant heat under a new tile floor. The best way for one to reduce their energy consumption is to use electric radiant ceiling heat. What can I do with this weird 2 ft cantilever. It should cost less than $100. Morgan : If it leaves a client without power Hi everyone, And I would like to see better apples-to-apples tests and comparisons of energy efficiency.). "This type of heating has the same advantages of other forms of electric resistance heat, including electric resistance baseboard, electric mats under your tile floor, and electric resistance space heaters. Floors are comfortable due to that heat from the ceilings below. Very stable with 5" concrete on steel deck slabs The heating working great, I just want a digital thermostat put in. With forced-air heating, the most ubiquitous type in America, temperatures are particularly variable, thanks to the roller-coaster effect of the system turning on and off. I have never seen it installed between two layers of drywall before tho. It's very comfortable and maintenance-free. I would also add the US Dept. In this case, one solution to increase the overall comfort and reduce energy consumption at the same time is to provide a source of supplemental heat to those areas being occupied at one moment and exclude or lower the overall supply of central heat. temperatures. I don't want to just lay it up on top of the patch I put in (attic is above). Voltage from each hot wire to one of the grid leads showed 85v, same as my good room. How to Install Radiant Heat Ceilings | This Old House - YouTube 0:00 / 3:19 How to Install Radiant Heat Ceilings | This Old House This Old House 1.94M subscribers 75K views 2 years ago. Thank you. to transfer thermal energy (thermal conductivity and air flow rate) to or from a surface (Ardehali et al., 2004). And yes, I find your assumption that I don't understand radiant heat -- whether from the sun, a wood stove, or one of your electric resistance panels -- to be somewhat condescending. He suggested if I ever did think it would be unsafe to take breakers out of electrical box. 00. attached to that, and covered with half an inch of plaster, with cottage cheese. Radiant ceiling heat, 1969 home, Trying to find ceiling joist with a stud finder.. it seems to be picking up radiant heat as well.. Hell nothing else than electricity is even available here and i am less than 1 hour from montreal. To replace the old ceiling heat I had the Ditra floor heating system installed under my new tiles. Radiant flooring provides considerable design flexibility and warms chilly feet. Some people prefer hot feet -- some people prefer a hot head. heating systems (Hart, 1981; Zmeureanu et al., 1988) which is not favorable since air infiltration rate in a building is one of the significant factors affecting energy use and comfort (DeWerth and Loria, The panels conduct heat so effectively that they can be used beneath any type of flooring, be it tile, hardwood, or even thick-pile carpeting. I have never seen them in residential projects. That's why you are happy to use electric resistance heat -- because your electricity is so cheap. It has been like this for several years. capabilities with low-temperature and low-intensity energy sources such as solar systems and heat pumps (Kilkis et al., 1995) (4) while maintaining acceptable thermal comfort (Imanari et al., Looks like it's for trades though. The wires down to the thermostat are small (like standard thermostat wire), while the lines from the service panel to the box on the 2x4 in the attic are substantially larger. So when heated water travels through the hydronic tubing within aluminum panels, the metal swiftly transfers the heat to the home. While Warmboard offers better-than-average . You received a plan on which sheets went where. Steve Kilbride, what do you pay for a KWH along with location and heating degree days? Your claim that "A BTU is a BTU" is certainly true, but you said that in response to a point made that a "BTU is not equal to a KWh". Different systems have differing system-efficiencies- with differing fractions of distribution loss. I wasnt able to find much at all about this company. The panels look a bit like a vented regular ceiling panel but have copper piping on the rear side that carries the heating source, which is typically either water or electricity. Some small, some larger, that when added together tip the scales hugely in favor of radiant heat. Indem Sie auf Annehmen klicken, stimmen Sie dem zu. There are many benefits to choosing a radiant heat ceiling as the heating option for your home. HeatingGreen.com offers comparable panels if you're looking to compare. Seven years or so ago we had a remodel done and our kitchen and bath wires were inadvertently cut. All our other ceilings don't get warm to the touch but heat the rooms. However I'd be happy to go into greater detail at another time, perhaps in another topic area that is more appropriate. We have electric radiant heat in our ceilings in a ranch house built in the late 1960s by my uncle. It may have taken a few thousand years to get right, but radiant heating has finally arrived. At no point have I ever confused electric radiant ceiling panels with electric resistance baseboards -- I know the difference. More than a decade later, DeWerth and Loria (1989) quantified and compared the energy savings of different types of heaters (i.e. Author: Messages . It is a unique feature of hydronic heating that one can change his mind. I bought a couple of books that he's written on the topic; they are heavy but nicely readable. Naturally, there is no valid argument against raising mean radiant temperatures for comfort. Question for the people smarter than me: I'm repairing a corner of the ceiling with radiant heat installed. It was determined to be from ceiling heat. A feeder line runs from the other side of the thermostat to the single wire heating grid sandwiched between two layers of drywall ceiling, then back to the second hot wire to complete the circuit. Amazon.com: ceiling heat thermostat. Check into a company out of Wareham, MA. We had zan oil stove downstairs that helped keep electricity cost down. William, Someone told me there may be a relay in each box, allowing a low current thermostat to be used. If I can't go all the way up with the bookcases, then how much room must I leave between their tops and the ceiling? Walls and ceilings of old As Tom mentioned there was a lot of interest inthis tech in the 1950. look at some of the big names that were involved. We built our house in 1969. Last Post 03 Feb 2009 06:25 PM by walltech. Today, innovative systems allow homeowners to target different temperatures for different parts of the home. Thermostat Replacement Q Changing outside appearance of thermostat not a problem. I was able find a label on the top side of the panel in my attic. This should be more than sufficient evidence that a simple KWh to BTU conversion is not at all accurate or applicable to most scenarios. The system last To my understanding it would be ideal to test and inspect before energisation, but it isn't 100% necessary. Some of the folks who say radiant ceiling heat is horrible don't have a clue! So it means 22 amps for 120/240 Volt system or 18 amps for 277 volt system, and since I am in the . Does a CU swap require a full initial verification on all circuits before it can be energised? I found the wire at an Ace Hardware store. Does this sound feasible? Or go with something totally different like a mini split? In part, radiant excels in efficiency because, unlike forced-air systems with imperfect ductwork,the former isnt vulnerable to heat loss. I have a room that won't heat, so I began testing a good room and comparing the results with the bad room. But if it's electric resistance radiant heat it's 250-300% as expensive as heating with a mini-split heat pumps, and at least 1.5-2x as expensive as heating with non-modulating ducted heat pumps. The lines leading to and from the grid had no continuity, so I began to suspect a broken wire somewhere in the grid. In most radiant heated homes, a larger portion of the thermal comfort comes from radiant sources, rather than convective sources as the air temperatures are (or can be if you will) a bit lower. Manufactured gypsum board heating panels use an electrical heating element in 16-mm (f-in.) I checked with the electrician that installed my ceiling heat He asked me some questions regarding if there had been any leaks, cracks in ceiling, or if I planned to use it for main heat source. In a well insulated home with the proper number of panels per the home heat loss . I am sorry this feels condescending to you, but the way you put down anyone who tries to explain radiant heat to you comes off as condescending and uninformed. Otherwise we keep it on 55 degrees to keep the house from getting too cold when we are at work. When the delivery systems are similar a BTU is a BTU. 1990). But at the end, i will still install heatpump mini splits to cool, so with the effeciency difference, they will see alot of use in the off winter months heating period. https://www.pmmag.com/ext/resources/PM/2014/June/016-020-0614-Siggy.pdf, Two other pieces to be taken with a grain of salt since it's from a manufacturer/dealer, but still useful (under 5 minute read each): They had told her to feel free to use the electric ceiling heat (very similar to own nearby home built same era, 1963 - 68-ish, same kitchen cabinet hardware, same foyer slate. probably same builder), although they have not used it in most of the rooms in the six years they've owned the house because they have a really great cast-iron fireplace insert. Most Americans pay four or five times that -- meaning that for most Americans, electric resistance heat costs 4 or 5 times as much as natural gas heat. Kevin, still here and reading all with interest. I said I'd have a Hi All, in the Electrical Forum area at ElectriciansForums.net, Reply to Ceiling heating1970's? I believe the floor and ceiling heat is Perfectly warm and their deicing is Perfectly clear. Radiant Ceiling Heat Thermostat Replacement 9 Easy Steps Efficiently Heating And Cooling Homes With High Ceilings Rooms Dengarden Radiant Floor Heating When It Does And Doesn T Make Sense Buildinggreen Electric Radiant Floor Warming Doityourself Com Wps Most Power Should Be Red Tonight Wluk Hydronic Ceiling Panels Heating Help The Wall Heating, Cooling & Air; Heating & Cooling Appliances; Space Heaters; Share | . There's no downside to that. Typically, its warmest near the heating unit and considerably cooler farther away. Example: Take two houses in the winter both heated to 68 degrees. The heat would be 240V (dbl pole).If a dbl pole thermo was installed, it would `correctly` break BOTH 120V legs of the power. sug suggest to just get a thermometor . Broan 157 1250W Electric Radiant Ceiling Heater Surface Mount . ft. in a cold climate with lots of glass. Price Diffusers has a nice design guideline for using radiant ceiling panels on thier web site. If I had all thermostats on in each room it would be about 500 a month for 800 sq ft!! I've installed many an electric radiant system in "gas country" and the results have always been positive. The thermostats say ceil heat. We are pleased with this answer and still looking into how to do a safety inspection. Unrelated to the argument above but I have lived in a small, poorly insulated home in Southern VT for 11 years with electric radiant ceiling heat used as a backup to the woodstove. Most parts of the country are paying about $1 a therm for natural gas. (We have this type of heat in another home we have and I am always cold there. ive also cut 4-1/2 holes between joists for can lights and have not seen any wires in the cross section of gypsum board. I am looking for some truth here and am always open to learning new things. Hydronic radiant heat circulates hot water through a series of pipes embedded in the walls, floors, or ceilings. thanks. 2023 The Taunton Press, Inc. All rights reserved. About as much use as a bad bellyache seemed to be the concensus amongst users,now long since converted to wet systems.If I recall it was fed on the onpeak side of E7 via a T/S and contactor,and available 24hrs. You posted a similar comment on this page on Feb. 9, 2012. Some people prefer hot feet -- some people prefer a hot head. But had i know better, i'd still would've consider heat pumps as main heat source because of the cost difference vs resistance. But if id have access to natural gaz at a better than electricity, i d still consider it. They are 122 cm (4 ft) wide and 183, 244, 305, or 366 cm (6, 8, 10, or 12 ft) long. Bedrooms are so comfortable at times it is not even necessary to turn on heat in those rooms unless temperatures become extremely frigid. Articles may contain affiliate links which enable us to share in the revenue of any purchases made. I could add to the canadian study and confirm in our second fully heated winter, that floor radiant heating does not mean lower thermostat settings at all. Electric Radiant Ceiling Heating System Benefits 100% energy efficient Maintenance free Quiet, safe and clean Superior heating comfort -gentle even temperature from floor to ceiling Aesthetically pleasing design - system is completely concealed Room temperature can be verified from anywhere in the building
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